Friday, April 4, 2014

Akira Toriyama: "I just lost the will to draw a battle manga (after the Majin Buu saga)"



1: ケツすべりφ ★:2014/03/28(金) 17:38:06.27 0
Seiyuu Masako Nozawa (77) and comedy duo Harisenbon were at the completion screening event of Dragonball Kai on the 28th. 

Author Akira Toriyama gave his comments, saying "I lost the will to draw a battle manga" after the Majin Buu saga. 

Toriyama gave his thoughts on Majin Buu, the strongest enemy in Kai and looked back: "The final opponent in the Dragon Ball weekly mangas was Majin Buu. Yes, the last enemy was round! He was strong! And he was pesky!". "It was just intense, tedious fights one after another -- to the point that it made me tired of it all. Now that I've turned into an old man with high blood pressure and who likes bland tastes, I won't be able to create battles like that anymore. Rather, I've lost the will to draw a battle manga again after Dragon Ball."

He continued: "As the author, I actually preferred the exchange between characters that didn't really matter that much". "I was thrilled when I was drawing the foolish Mr. Satan contributing to their victory."

He also gave special mention to Nozawa who voices Son Goku, Son Gohan, and Son Goten by herself and told the fans to "Please enjoy and be impressed at Masako Nozawa-san's amazing talent at using the voice of whichever of the 3 at will".

Dragon Ball Kai is an HD remaster and recut of the original Dragon Ball Z. This is the continuation of the initial Kai series which premiered on Fuji TV in April 2009 to August 2011.


http://p.news.nimg.jp/photo/766/873766p.jpg



3 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:45:38.46 0
子供が主人公の力の抜けた冒険活劇はよ 
Hurry up and do a timid adventure spectacle with a young boy as the main character
4 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:45:51.62
ペジータまでなら許せるが、より強い敵が現れて呉空も強くなっていく、再現がなくなってナンセンスの極みに陥るよ。そりゃ描く気力もなくなるわな。 
I was still able to forgive him until the Vegeta saga, but as stronger opponents appeared, Goku also went on to become much stronger, and it all just became nonsense. Of course he'd lose the will to draw with that.
5 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:47:09.60 0
ドラゴンボールも最初はマッタリ系だったんだがなあ 
Dragon Ball also started off pretty relaxed and lighthearted, though
9 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:49:29.96 0
アラレちゃん描いてたころの鳥山は楽しそうだった 
Toriyama looked like he was having a lot of fun when he was still drawing Arale-chan


http://files.hangame.co.jp/blog/2011/39/74b65600/06/28/35581832/74b65600_1309236579461.jpg
10 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:49:36.25 0
貯金いくらくらいあんだろ 
数億円でいいから恵んでくんねえかな 
I wonder how much savings he has.
I hope he can spare me at least a few hundred million yen.
12 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:50:38.85 0
人類滅ぼしたり地球壊したり 
もう破れかぶれになってんのがよくわかった 
続けさせられるもんならやってみろって感じで 
Annihilating the human race, destroying earth...
You could actually tell that he was getting reckless and desperate at one point.
It's like he was telling (his editors) "Go ahead and try to keep making me write stuff like this!".
16 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:52:27.14 0
Dr.スランプ~初期のドラゴンボールのが面白かったから、そこへ戻るのならうれしい 
Dr. Slump to the beginning of Dragon Ball was much more fun, so It'll make me really happy if he returns to doing that style
http://file.muin.janken-pon.net/arare1.jpg
17 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:55:14.12 O
亀仙人がスケベの限りを尽くす漫画おねがいします 
最後は返り討ちだろうけど 
Please make a manga that will exhaust the pervyness of Kamesennin.
I'm sure that he'll just be thwarted in the end, though.


http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-0a-4f/taraikeniti/folder/666025/89/38831589/img_2?1314524867
20 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:59:35.99 0
天下一武道会 → 強い悪役 → トレーニング → やっつける → シェンロン → 生き返る ┐ 
    ↑                                                              
    └――――――――――――― エンドレス ―――――――――――――――┘ 

飽きられる 

Tenkaichi Budokai → Villains → Training → Beats them → Shenron → Revive  ┐
    ↑                                                             
    └―――――――――――――---------------- Endless ------------

People will grow tired of this.
21 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 17:59:37.48 0
>作者としては、どうでもいいようなキャラ達のやりとりの方がずっと好きです 

うん 
というか、もともとこの人はそういうナンセンスギャグを描いてた人だからね 
ただ、ナンセンスギャグ作家としては、ドクタースランプ中期あたりでネタ切れを起こしてたのも確かなわけで そこを隠して擁護はできない 

編集者もバカじゃないから、「スランプ」や「ドラゴンボール」が途中からバトル漫画になったのは このままこの作家にギャグをさせるのは無理だと踏んだからだろう 

また、現実問題として、ネタ切れをおこした作家に週刊連載ペースでギャグを続けさせると その作家の健康並びに精神問題にも悪影響を及ぼし、最悪の場合になる可能性もある (実際、そうなった漫画家はたくさんいる) 

スランプにせよドラゴンボールにせよ、当初はナンセンスギャグ漫画であったものが 途中からバトル漫画になったことに関して編集を責める人もいるが 
それは、裏を返せば、編集のやさしさだったのかも知れない 
>"As the author, I actually preferred the exchange between characters that didn't really matter that much."

Yup. 
This person actually started off writing nonsensical gags like that.
But it was also a fact that he ran out of jokes midway through Dr. Slump, and you can't proceed to defend him by hiding that fact away.

His editors weren't stupid, and the reason why Slump and Dragon Ball turned into battle mangas midway was because they anticipated that it was impossible for Toriyama to keep on doing gags.

And another problem is if you made an author who has exhausted his jokes keep writing gag mangas on a weekly basis, it would have had a negative effect on the author's health and mental state, and might even lead to the worst case scenario (which has actually happened to a lot of other mangakas).

Whether it's Dr. Slump or Dragon Ball, there were people who blamed the editors for turning what initially was a lighthearted gag manga into a battle manga. But on the flipside, that might have actually been the editor's kindness and concern towards Toriyama.
22 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:02:23.99 0
>>21
そもそも冒険ものとナンセンスギャグって食い合わせ悪いしなあ 
魔法陣グルグルみたいな成功例もあるけどレア 
Nonsensical humor and adventures don't even go well together in the first place.
Well, there are successful ones like Mahoujin Guru Guru, but that's a pretty rare instance.
35 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:35:10.15 0
>>21
>途中からバトル漫画になったことに関して 
ジャンプ漫画でそうならなかった物があるのかw 
> on becoming a battle manga midway through

Err, is there even a Jump manga that didn't follow this formula? w
24 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:09:30.70 0
最初がギャグ調なのはドラゴンボールだけじゃないけどな 
Dragon Ball wasn't the only manga that had comical taste in the beginning, though
26 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:10:00.69 O
鳥山さんモチベ無かったのはよくわかるわ。 
アニメの方も後半似たようなバトルの繰り返しでクッソつまらんかったからなぁ 
It was pretty obvious how Toriyama-san didn't have motivation.
Even in the anime, battles all felt the same towards the end and it was all so damn boring.
27 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:12:00.33 0
ブウとの戦いなんて3年くらい連載してたもんな 
そりゃ作者も読者もあきる 
He even had to do the Buu saga for 3 years. Both the author and the readers grew tired of that.
30 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:22:26.98 0
タオパイパイあたりが一番しびれんだよな 
最後はキャラクターのぱわーが完全にインフレ化していて面白くなかった 
The Tao paipai arc was the most exciting one.
Then the power of all these characters started inflating towards the end, and it just got boring.



http://file.onepiece.ria10.com/59fdc247.jpeg
31 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:23:13.21 0
冨樫義博もこうだったのか 
Is this what happened to Yoshihiro Togashi as well?


http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/hanagenuki-jet/imgs/f/8/f8c48858.jpg
33 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:25:45.24 0
バトルモノの方が新キャラテコ入れしやすいからな 
主人公達の成長も目に見える形に出来るし 
キン肉マンからワンピースまでバトルモノ化したマンガなんて枚挙に暇がない 
Well, it's much easier to shore up new characters in these battle settings.
You can also see very well how the main characters are progressing along.
From Kinnikuman to One Piece, there are just too many mangas that have transformed into battle mangas.
37 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:38:11.32 0
野沢雅子は年下の鳥山明に「先生は神様ですね」と言い 
鳥山明は「僕なんかが野沢さんを批評できるわけがない」と 
Masako Nozawa said that the younger Akira Toriyama "Sensei is a god",
while Akira Toriyama said "Someone like me has no right to judge Nozawa-san".
39 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:47:18.64 0
俺は鳥山のマンガは好きだ! 
I love Toriyama's mangas!
40 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:47:29.61 0
俺の中ではフリーザまで 
それ以降は強さのインフレでつまんなくなった 
For me it was good until the Frieza saga.
Afterwards, the strength of the characters just ballooned and it all got boring.
41 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 18:56:45.63 O
親子三代同じ声の必要あんの? 
Is there really a need to make the voice of the parent and his sons the same?
43 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 19:04:09.32 0
だったらもうちょっとチャオズを何とかしてくださいよー 
Then he should've at least done something about Chaozu


http://d2dcan0armyq93.cloudfront.net/photo/odai/400/80e678b5303093c3a83c1aef566dfdf1_400.jpg
44 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 19:35:02.42 O
でも今の鳥山明はそのバカバカしいのも描けなくなったな 
なんか普通になった 
昔のもっとアホな鳥山明を読みたい 
But even the current Toriyama has lost the ability to write stupid and crazy stuff.
He's just become ordinary now.
I want to read more stupid Akira Toriyama stuff like the ones back in the day.
45 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 19:42:04.96 0
>>44
鳥山の天才っぷりが最も発揮されたのはDr.スランプだもんなあ。 
あんなアホなのよく発想できたと思うよ。 
ドラゴンボールも、パフパフやツンツンがあった頃はギャグが面白かったなあ。 
バトルパートのピークは個人的にはシェンvsマジュニア戦。 
あれ以降はところどころ面白いところはあったがおれ的には下降線に思えた。 
Toriyama's ingeniousness really showed the most in Dr. Slump.
I was really amazed at how he was able to think of such stupidity.
The gags in Dragon Ball were also fun when it still had "pafu pafu" and "tsun tsun".
The peak of the battle part, for me, was Shen vs. Majunior.
There may have been fun parts here and there after that, but it was all downhill from there.
49 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 20:04:44.51 O
戦力外の天津飯が気功砲でセルを足止めしたシーンとか無理がありすぎやろ 
He stretched it too much when weakling Tenshinhan was able to stop Cell on his tracks with the Kikouhou


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oMbx2UP05Kk/Ub8Qzuy-ylI/AAAAAAAAB74/AqnkXtJSJQA/s1600/%E6%96%B0%E6%B0%97%E5%8A%9F%E7%A0%B2%EF%BC%93.png
77 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 01:17:56.51 O
>>49
天津飯だけは戦力外z戦士の中でも別格やん 
Tenshinhan himself was in a different class from all the other useless Z warriors, though
50 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 20:22:09.05 0
読者の俺から見ても、ミスター・サタンは逸材だったけどなw 
誰よりも弱く、そして悪運が強い、カメレオンの矢沢に期待する気持ちで見てた 
Even from a reader's standpoint, Mr. Satan was outstanding w
He was weaker than anyone, and had the devil's luck with him. I watched him, like how one would pin his hopes on Chameleon's Yazawa.
52 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 20:30:02.42 O
ブウか… 
俺はその前のセルまでだったかな… 
Buu, huh...
It was just until Cell for me...
53 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 20:51:02.52 0
ミスター・サタンという発想がなかったらほんとにグダグダだったろうなあ 
Things would've probably been a mess if he didn't come up with Mr. Satan


http://tantawan.c.blog.so-net.ne.jp/_images/blog/_13f/tantawan/m_E784A1E9A18C2.jpg?c=a1
56 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 21:05:54.26 0
>>1 
これは解るわ。 
実際ブゥ編はバトルよりも、二転三転するストーリーが肝。 
ただの道化だったミスターサタンが、味のある魅力的なキャラになって 
世界の命運を左右するキーマンに化けたり、 
平和や家族愛を知ったベジータの分裂した内面と葛藤が描かれたり。 
フュージョンをやる、やらないのバカバカしいやりとりとか、 
悟天&トランクスコンビとか、往年のギャグセンスも見事に復活してる。 

ブゥ編は、それまでのインフレ展開からの良い改変例として、もっと再評価されるべき。 
I understand what he means.
In the Buu saga, the twists in the story were more important than the battles themselves.
Mr. Satan who just used to be a clown turned into this unique and attractive character, and eventually became the key person who would decide the fate of the earth. Then there was also the mental conflict of Vegeta who finally understood the meaning of peace and discovered love for his family. Then there were the stupid exchanges about the fusion technique, as well as the Goten and Trunks duo... It did seem like he rediscovered his comedy touch from his heyday.

The Buu saga should actually be recognized more as a success for changing all those inflated strength and battle aspects.
64 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 21:54:07.03 O
>>56
俺は悟飯のハイスクール編が1番好きだ。 
スーパーサイヤマンとか最高に面白い。 
I liked Gohan's high school life best.
Super Saiyaman was really amazing.
123 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/04/01(火) 04:30:08.49 O
>>64
グレートサイヤマンだから・・・ 
You mean Great Saiyaman...


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090408173723/dragonball/images/a/a9/DBZGSM4.jpg
65 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 22:15:03.14 0
末期にはドラゴボの影響で「殺す」という言葉を使う子供が増えた、なんて言われてたし 
初期アラレちゃんみたいな平和的ギャグマンガ描けばいいんじゃないかな 

あーでも今度は「うんちくんだあ!」っつってウンコ触る子供が出るかw 
But people blamed Dragon Ball's influence on a lot of kids who started saying "kill" or "I'll kill you", especially towards its last days. Maybe he should write a peaceful gag manga again, like early Arale-chan.

Ahhh, but then there will be kids who'd start touching poo and say "It's Unchi-kun!" w


http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/newstwo/imgs/f/5/f5f748a0.jpg
66 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 22:29:57.56 0
>>65
人造人間編辺りから味方キャラまでもが平気で殺す殺す連発するのはちょっと引いた 
I did get a bit appalled at the Android-saga when even the comrades started chanting "kill! kill!"
67 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 22:34:09.74 0
>>65
うちの小学校では倒れたお友達の頭を踏んだとかで問題になったわ 
There was also a problem in our school when someone stepped on the head of his fallen friend
69 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 22:42:02.47 0
>>67
16号かww 
Oh, Android No. 16 www


http://stat.ameba.jp/user_images/20100524/22/ms06ms14/d2/e2/j/t01370210_0137021010557384971.jpg
70 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/28(金) 23:15:50.28 0
この人のメカ絵はすごいかっこいいよな。 
以降でこの人並みにかっこいいメカの絵を書ける人ってまだ出てきてない。
The mechanical objects that this person would draw were all so cool.
And I've never seen anyone again who could draw mechs as cool as he could.


http://file.afrostar.blog.shinobi.jp/WLA.JPG


http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201209/30/77/c0203277_14105015.jpg


http://blog-imgs-31-origin.fc2.com/u/b/i/ubiquity/20090308-ToriyamaAkira700.jpg


http://www.mandarake.jp/information/2009/01/30/21nkn11/p1.jpg
75 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 00:26:28.86 0
ベジータVSザーボン、リクームあたりが面白さも画力も全盛期 
The fun-factor of the series and his drawing ability were both at their peak when Vegeta faced Zarbon and Recoom


http://blog-imgs-37.fc2.com/p/e/n/pennkiya/18-119.png
83 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 02:15:37.97 I
ミスターサタンほどの名脇役ってなかなかいないよね 
Mister Satan's as good as it gets when it comes to supporting characters
86 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 03:31:19.02 0
セル編も面白かったけどなー 
未来から来たとかすんげえわくわくすっぞ! 
The Cell saga was pretty good, though.
I was really excited about the characters coming from the future.
88 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 07:36:28.20 0
鳥山氏の描きたい漫画は 
ドラゴンボールよりアラレちゃんだったって事がよくわかる 
I can really tell that what Mr. Toriyama really wants to draw is Arale-chan and not Dragon Ball
102 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 12:24:52.59 0
人気が出すぎたのが原因だが、もう少し強さの調整はできなかったのか 
宇宙の帝王()は酷かった 

地球にいるメンバーだけで人造人間をなんとかする、とかさ 
なんであっさりフリーザ以上の敵を出すかね 
セル・ブウは仕方ないにしろ、17と18号 

クリリンいわく、「ほんのちょっと改造しただけ」なのに 
元は普通の地球人だった奴らがフリーザ以上とか… 
長く修行してきたクリリンが憐れすぎんぞ… 
It may have been because of how big Dragon Ball has become, but wasn't he able to fine tune the strength of the characters a bit better? The emperor of the universe was really horrible.

Like making the characters on earth do something about the androids. I really wonder why he easily created characters who were stronger than Frieza. Well you couldn't do anything about Cell and Buu, but what about Andorids 17 and 18?

According to Krillin, these Androids "were just modified a little" and they're basically humans, then they're suddenly stronger than Frieza...? How miserable is Krillin who trained so hard all that time, then...
115 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/03/29(土) 13:50:42.26 O
人造人間・セルまでワクワクしながら読んだ☆ 
I was always excited during the time that I was reading  the Android / Cell saga
121 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/04/01(火) 00:00:01.76 0
けっこうブルマとかエロかったよな 
Even someone like Bulma used to be so hot back then


http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/masaomosao-jump/imgs/4/d/4deb9a24.jpg
131 :オレオレ!オレだよ、名無しだよ!!:2014/04/01(火) 10:46:07.39 0
鳥山明は後2回変身できるから大丈夫 
Don't worry, Akira Toriyama still has 2 transformations left so it's all good


http://nikunikumamimami.web.fc2.com/2kai




Original Thread






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